The Sun's poll carried out by YouGov, which indicated that Labour have not been as unpopular since the 1930s, is the result of the actions of two men - Gordon Brown and David Cameron. Without doubt Brown's dithering, poor choice of policy and general incompetence has caused Labour to lose a great amount of support. But, that lost support has not been to the advantage of the Lib Dems. Ever since the highly successful Conservative party conference last year, David Cameron has led his party to historic popularity. There are certain members of the media who have said that the Tories recent success is more down to Gordon's ineptitude rather than Cameron's leadership. Well I say - what a load of rubbish.The policies that Cameron and his shadow cabinet laid out at the Tory conference were stolen by Brown, everyone knew it. They knew the we were the party with the ideas and Labour were reduced to stealing them. Brown is trying to use the all mouth and no trousers approach to Cameron, but it falls on deaf ears when the only Labour policies the public like are second hand Tory ones. I can't think of one Labour policy since Brown came to power that the public actually appreciated. All we ever hear from Labour is tax this and tax that, ban, ban, ban, fine, fine, fine. Labour's policies are so unpopular that their own MPs are campaigning against them in their own constituencies. However that doesn't seem to stop them voting for them in parliament.
I'm a member of the Conservative party, not because I'm a traditional Tory, but because the Tories are the party who are coming up with the policies I feel are necessary for this country to become great once again. I supported Labour in the past, but they have sucked this country dry. It's all been down to uncontrollable spending and poor management. Our taxes are ridiculous, spending is out of control and so our national debt is an embarrassment. We all know that crime is getting worse and that our public services are fast becoming a joke. And still Labour publish figures telling us that actually, tractor production is up. To achieve this the massage the figures or change the way those figures are recorded. Basically they lie.
That's the point. I fell out of love with labour long before I became a Conservative party member. It's the lies - the bare faced lies.
14 comments:
Care to source your 'Crime is up' claim with some stats and appropriate links?
Overall crime levels are down significantly over the last decade by any (and indeed every) measure or survey in existence. This is factual information in the public domain that no party, your own included, disputes.
If you have evidence to the contrary then let's have it. If you don't then one part of your argument at least lies in pieces.
Anon,
It's true all the figures show crime is down (apart from violent of course). My point is that Labour have made many crimes non-reportable.
That'll be a 'no' then? So you've agreed that crime is down under Labour - next, can you list which specific crimes have Labour made non-reportable and offer a reasoned objection to that decision?
I may yet be surprised but I suspect not Steve - that's because your original post was choc full of ambiguities, half-truths & generalisations all designed to shore up your decision to join the Tories. Fair enough of course but let's not pretend this is reasoned or intelligent support for one party over another - it's not.
And on that basis I suspect the Tories are welcome to you....
Anon,
These figures make Labours' claims a little hard to believe.
Violent Crime
Sexual Offences
All Crime
Robbery
Criminal Damage
Drug Offences
Violence against the person
Answer me this: When prisoners are being released early and judges are being told to hand out shorter custodial sentences (or non at all), why are our prisons full to bursting? I'll give you a clue - it's not that the detection rates have gone up. It's simple maths - crime reduces and the prisons empty - crime increases and the prisons fill up.
Lies.
This is pathetic Steve - you've selectively chosen the pages that support your argument and ignored others (like the BCS stuff here) that doesn't. That's the very thing the Tories accuse Brown of doing at PMQs...
What's more the BCS stuff you ignored shows overall crime at a 1995 peak (who was in office then again?) falling by 44% since then. Why ever wouldn't you have mentioned that?
Even on the bits you do cite you ignore inconvienient facts:
~ Labour had to introduce a National Crime Recording Standard in April 2002 because the Tories always rejected the idea
~ In 1998 some new offences (common assault, possession of a weapon, assault on a constable) were added to the recorded crime series - again, Tories didn't think carrying a weapon was anything to worry about clearly.
~ Likewise with 'Criminal Damage' reporting, this was split into constituent offences which often occur in multiples so direct comparisons fail.
This really is not on Steve - your lazy and selective use of the facts suggests you're interested in partisan point scoring, not genuine debate or the serious issues the country faces. If your convictions are sound then test them properly - put this exchange into a post and invite others to contradict my views, come to your defence etc. Let's have it all out with reference to facts and figures and the reality of what's actually happening in the country - not the lazy half-truths and ambiguities you like to hide behind...
Anon,
I'm sorry the Home Office figures are not good enough for you. If you take time to look at them, you will notice that even taking into account the newly record offnces, crime has gone up over the last ten years.
I will not turn this into a post because I can't be arsed arguing with someone who believes I selected the Home Office figures. Come on - are you serious?
BSC are not actual recorded figures i.e. easily fudged. The figures I quoted come from the police database. Wake up and smell the bloody coffee.
You're just plain wrong - from the HO website:
"The British Crime Survey (BCS) asks people about their actual experiences - and so gives us a more accurate picture of crime levels and trends"
And by these figures crime has fallen by 44% since 1995. I'm more than happy to acknowledge Labour failings - violent crime has risen etc. - and debate them but your stubborn refusal to acknowledge Labour successes belittles you and undermines the very cause you purport to advance. Likewise with your reluctance to open the debate up.
What this thread shows Steve (and I'm pitching this in your favour as much as possible) is that your original post was at best a silly rant - unsourced generalisations and half-truths. When challenged some of what you say stands up but much of it falls down, thus undermining your case. Until you can make your arguments more robust and coherent they won't cut much ice with those who matter...
Anon,
Who wrote that first paragraph in your reply?
What about the rest of it?
The BCS surveys people in private households, and therefore doesn't cover certain types of crime, including:
Crimes against businesses
Crimes where there is no direct victim (such as possession of drugs)
Crimes against victims younger than 16 (it is considered inappropriate to survey child victims of crime in a general household survey)
Crimes that have involved deaths, like homicide (as the victims cannot be interviewed)
You still haven't told me how the prisons are overflowing if crime is going down.
Anon,
Also, If crime is going down, and detection rates are also going down - shouldn't the prisons be empty by now?
"You still haven't told me how the prisons are overflowing if crime is going down"
What! Because we're catching and convicting more people so the prisons are getting fuller - what DON'T you get about that Steve....?
It's perfectly consistent with crime falling - it's just we're also doing far better than the Tories at prosecting the crimes that remain.
LOL. Steve arguing with an anonymous poster is rather surreal. You certainly touched a raw nerve with somebody.
Anon, sadly after years of manipulation of figures, dodgy dossiers and statistics you may well be right, you may be wrong, but nobody believes you any more.... Whose fault is that?
Travis,
Anon is struggling to come to terms with supporting a bunch of numpties. I like the way he rubbishes my entire post based on crime figures. Everything I wrote is now regarded by the majority as being true. Even the crime figures.
Steve,
Perhaps 'Anon' would do well to read your article on Thursday asking on which planet Jacqui Smith lives.
Perhaps then whoever-this-is might begin to get a clue about what is really going on in Britain and how a completely different (and false) picture is being manufactured.
Cheers John. Glad to see you dropping in.
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