It is that simple. You can give Gordon Brown another five years by wasting your vote on a party that will never see power, or you can vote Conservative. A protest vote for UKIP will only allow Labour to drag this country further into Europe and deeper into the gutter.This is not an official poster.
35 comments:
While I understand your thinking, here is the paradox...
"You can give Gordon Brown another five years by wasting your vote on a party that will never see power, or you can vote Conservative and get a government that won't lift a finger to get the UK out of the EU."
It's not much of an incentive to be honest. That's why I'm staying home on polling day.
Why does anyone think that Conservative / UKIP swing voters are going to vote for UKIP now (except of course in Buckingham) when they can finally get rid of Brown?
The polls are already saying that UKIP's vote has slumped. The party is in dire financial straits and they have voted a loony as their leader.
2014 is going to be a far better opportunity to crush the Europhiliac wing of the Conservative Party.......
AM,
It's a simple as this. Labour are hell bent on further integration into the EU. Voting for anyone but the conservatives will only see further integration. Every vote that goes to Labour or UKIP means more of the EU for us.
Vote Labour - get more EU
Vote UKIP - get more EU
Don't vote - get more EU
Vote conservative - Your vote will count, it will help to stop further integration into the EU.
Conservative policy is to stay in the EU and embrace ever closer union. Any talk of renegotiating our relationship or pulling back powers from the EU is just a publicity stunt - it is impossible to take power back from the EU without unanimous agreement of every member state and that will not happen.
If you're a eurosceptic you have a simple choice: you can vote for the eurofederalist Conservatives (or any of the different coloured variations) or you can vote UKIP. You can vote for the Conservatives who won't do what you and the majority of the population want or you can vote UKIP who will.
Vote UKIP and you can force David Cameron to form a eurosceptic coalition. Waste your vote on the europhile Conservatives and the outcome of the next general election won't matter.
I can understand your sentiments here Steve, but your post has another way of reading it.
It's an admission that UKIP is a serious threat to the Conservatives, because you argue that it could deprive the Tories of power (not bad for a 'wasted' vote for a protest group). In my view that's good, it's the only way to concentrate their minds and get us the hell out of the EU.
So if the Tories are that worried about the UKIP threat then they should offer a better deal on the EU to those of us disillusioned with 'cast-iron' Dave's fudge about a sovereignty bill etc.
If all they can offer me to vote for them is; 'we don't want Brown' then that's a pretty damming indictment of their policies (or lack of them)
I don't want five years of Brown either but neither do I want another 5 years of an EU-loving Government (which is what we'll get regardless).
P.S. As there's a GE approaching, surely it's ripe for another liquid appreciation society meeting?
Wonko,
Everyone with half a brain knows that the Tories are Eurosceptic. To say otherwise is bullshit. Do you really believe that there will be a UKIP/Con coalition? dream on. You waste your vote if you want to. But don't complain when we get a Lib/Lab government.
Steve, no more than 20 minutes ago I asked you on Twitter "How will voting Conservative stop us from getting Brussels?" and you said "It won't, but it will stop further integration".
So you've acknowledged that the Conservatives won't take us out of the EU but you then make the false claim that it will stop further integration. You know as well as I do, as well as Cameron and anyone else who has even the vaguest understanding of politics, that the Lisbon Treaty did away with all the key national vetoes and that the Lisbon Treaty is self-amending and no further treaty is required for future EU power grabs. You also know that repatriating any power from the EU requires unanimous agreement from every member state. The Conservative's have no credible policy on the EU because inside the EU, the British government doesn't run the country.
Only UKIP is committed to leaving the EU and if David Cameron would rather have a LibLab coalition running the country than form a coalition with a eurosceptic party then he's clearly unfit to run the country anyway.
I certainly won't be wasting my vote on the europhile Tories just to stop europhile Liebour from winning. My eurosceptic vote will be going to a eurosceptic party.
>>"If you Vote UKIP, you will get Gordon Brown .. It is that simple.
Simple is the word for cobblers like that. I note yet again that UKIP's opponents can't argue with their policies so resort to pushing this desperate untruth as a way of dissuading potential UKIP supporters. You must really be worried.
Do you actually think we'll forget that Cameron hasn't done a damn thing about standing up to the EU? Not to mention that infamous promise of his to the British people about holding a referendum on Europe which he then - quite outrageously - went back on.
Vote Tory? Vote Labour? Vote Liberal? Like hell. But vote UKIP? Damn straight.
Worried are you? You should be, because people like me are going to come out on election night & deny your party the chance to govern. You had your chance & you blew it. So you keep pushing that 'Vote UKIP, get Labour' meme & see how far it gets you. You're done.
"it is impossible to take power back from the EU without unanimous agreement"
There ain't no such thing as "Impossible" pal!
Anonymous, that's the attitude that keeps the votes coming in for the Tories. Under the Lisbon Treaty we can no longer leave the EU when we want, we now have to get permission from every other EU member state and if they agree we have to wait 2 years before we can leave. There is now way to take back any power the EU has without the permission of every member state. The only way to do anything without the EU's permission is to renege on an international treaty in contravention of the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties.
You can say all you want about whether the Tories are eurosceptic or not, but it does not get away from the fact that if you do not vote conservative you will get Labour.
Labour took us into the Lisbon Treaty, they love the EU, most of them probably have plans to work for it. You are cutting your nose off to spite your face. If you want more of the same from Labour, then go ahead and vote UKIP, but you might as well vote for the moon.
Steve if we get a Labour or a Conservative government we get the EU so what's the point? We're cutting off our nose whomever we vote for.
As you say Labour took us into the Lisbon Treaty, but the Conservatives took us into the Common Market, the Single European Act and need I say Maastricht.
Judging a man by his deeds, calling the Tories Eurosceptics is complete nonsense on stilts - as Hannan himself put it; 'no party is Eurosceptic once in office'.
The Tories are acting like a shopkeeper moaning that all his customers have gone to another shop because they offer what the customers want.
If the Tories don't want a Labour government then starting offering their potential voters stuff they want - i.e. genuine Eurosceptic policies, and they'll return back from UKIP.
Otherwise what's the point of voting one EU-loving party for another, if that's all that's left, then as the first commenter said we might as well stay at home.
Sorry Steve, after voting Tory for over 30 years, I too shall be voting UKIP. Mainly because of the EU issue and also because I think Cameron has been less than honest about whats happening to the UK as a sovereignty and consequently our ancient rights!
At the moment it seems like if you vote Conservative, you will get Gordon Brown, just a bit posher but with just as much spin, lies and coverups!
Steve, I sympathise with you, I really do. I hate Labour with every bit as much fervour as you.
But while Labour may be hell bent on further integration, the Conservatives are content to continue with the UK remaining subject to the federalist Treaty signed in Lisbon.
Cameron has carefully worded his comments to appear as though he will take action. But anyone who looks at what action is needed sees that Cameron's pledges are contradictory.
He cannot achieve his stated aims without abrogating Lisbon. It is like saying you will get out of the swimming pool but stay in the water.
UKIP is a waste of time and I will not be voting for them. But to be honest a Tory government will be more like Labour than you could imagine. Cameron has moved the party into the same space and spends more time with Demos and the Guardian than focusing on real conservatives whose support he thinks he can do without.
DailyRef: You can tell from the number of comments that this is the subject that exercises Tory minds the most; with similar intensity and more vitriol on other blogs, too.
Cameron must know this, yet continues to equivocate or be ambiguous on this subject. To my mind it's Cameron who is taking the risk to lose to Brown - not "usually Conservative" voters - but that may be his intention, bearing in mind the nation's parlous financial state.
Before the last EU elections, and ever since I was old enough to vote, I always supported and voted Tory, but not anymore. What have they been doing to oppose these past few years of Labour dictatorship? Bugger all, except line their own pockets and jockey for sinecure positions! As far as I can see, there is little difference between Cameron and Brown, or Tory and Labour (or Lib Dem for that matter). None of them conduct themselves with any honour. They have all let down the people of this Nation, their actions bordering on treachery; and judging by what they are saying, they will continue to let us down. The political class are systematically destroying our Nation; so Bollocks to the lot of them I and many others say! So we won't be voting for the three main parties in the next election. We’ll choose to not vote, vote for UKIP, vote Monster Raving Loony, vote BNP, vote Green or for anyone else if we want, whoever it might let in.
Hopefully, these are the last days of the Left-Right paradigm.
Harry, I don't think we really have a Left-Right paradigm any more.
The battle is more between authoritarians and managerialists. Either way, both believe in centralised control and greater state power over individuals.
Different diseases, same affliction, both unwanted.
Not going to happen I'm afraid. Cameron lost my marginal constituency vote the day he said we wouldn't get a vote on Lisbon.
Although UKIP's fascist policy on banning burqas has made me think twice about them as well, fuck it, I'll not vote at all.
It's UKIP all the way I'm afraid Steve. I was energised, enthused and singing the praises of the Conservatives right up until the Lisbon furore.
You see I always hoped that Cameronism was a trojan horse. Get in power and then reveal that you are a true tory after all.
Many asked for my evidence for this and I said it was a hunch based on their rhetoric. Then we had the cast iron shatter.
As Peter Oborne commented on Conhome, it is better to let Labour back in and re-group as a real conservative party, than to elect blue Labour.
The people have nothing to choose between and that stinks.
The undertone of this post is:
If Labour get in because of a large UKIP vote, then the supporters of UKIP are to blame.
How about:
If Labour get in because of a large UKIP vote, then Cameron is to blame for not representing those who felt obliged to vote for UKIP?
God I hate the EU (not Europe) with a passion but the thought of a hissy fit vote thrown to UKIP in a general election and potentially letting a EUlunatic Labour or LibDem get in defies so much logic it's untrue. Forget Lisbon, the horse has well and truly bolted and Mandy certainly set Dave up for that fall, and nobody is ever going to give us the only vote that id really needed IN or OUT.
On the other hand everyone should vote UKIP in European elections where they might actually be able to do something.
Thanks Mulligan,
There is intelligent life on earth after all.
I don't think Cameron has a clue as to how many tens of thousands of votes he stands to lose because of his 'cast-iron' bs.
I'm praying for a hung Parliament -and I'll vote for anyone except the LibLabCon to get it. That way there will be much blame apportioned to those EU loving supporters in the Conservative Party, thereby, I hope, triggering a leadership revolt enabling us to have a new Conservative leader who, shock, horror, puts the United Kingdom first.
This whole brou-haha about us having to get 'permission' to leave from all the other EU members is a load of bollocks. Ted Heath broke British laws signing us up in the first place - ie 1689 Bill of Rights, and the Magna Carta, which, when I last looked, were still on the statute books in this country.
Cameron is, I'm afraid, an empty vessel - he even admitted, on the Andrew Marr show to voting for Barroso, because he thought he was doing a 'good job'. What good job would that be Mr Cameron? Ignoring the will of the British people perhaps? This is the same Barroso who was a Maoist member of the Portuguese Communist party.
Also I'm curious as to what was discussed last summer when Cameron alledgedly visited Murdoch on his yacht in the Med. Since when does some (formally Australian and now American) Newspaper owner have any credentials to be involved in the democratic Parliamentary processes of this country?
What gets me is all this talk about how the horse has bolted with EU membership. What are they going to do if we leave?
The whole of the scientific and political world are corrupt and get away with it. Our politicians are notorious for getting away with literally murder. If Labour and Tony Blair can declare an illegal war on Iraq, then we can tell the EU, thank you, but no thanks.
@Mulligan: On the other hand everyone should vote UKIP in European elections where they might actually be able to do something.
Do what precisely? No-one can form a government let alone execute an electorate's manifesto in the EU parliament so what's the point? No MEP can actually do anything.
Voting anyone into the EU Parliament is complete waste of time, so any vote in the Euro elections is an exercise in futility.
and nobody is ever going to give us the only vote that id really needed IN or OUT.
Exactly no-one will until they are forced to (that's where UKIP comes in). Any vote for the Tories, Labour and Lib Dems is a vote for more EU, the only way they will listen is to make it harder for them to gain power by reducing their core vote.
No political party listens unless it has to. To vote Tory is to accept the EU
Autonomous Mind said...
"Harry, I don't think we really have a Left-Right paradigm any more."
As long the only feasible alternative
to a Labour government, is a Conservative one, then we still have a Left/Right paradigm.
I suppose if someone is only interested in a single issue they do not care who wins an election, if they do not get what they want.
Euroskeptics often seem pretty passionate in their views.
I am more interested in other issues such as economics, and geo-strategic issues.
I am more interested in other issues such as economics, and geo-strategic issues.
Which is why UKIP has a full range of policies, all of which are achievable once we are out of the European Empire. Unlike the Tories who have some vague policies about what they'd like to do if they were given permission from their masters in Brussels but can't actually do.
The clue here is a logical one. With Brown back in Downing Street we shall no longer have a democracy before long and that'll be the end of that. We all know it; and the Labour Party are essentially behind him, as are all their Communist and similar-leaning friends in the Unions, media, infiltrated into public services etc.
As the only possible outcomes for Prime Minister are Brown and Cameron, and with the latter there is a lot of anti-EU feeling within the party (including MPs — I have had private discussions with a fair number in recent times) you get the alternative you want — just not tomorrow (for very good, if complex, reasons).
There is no point voting UKIP, Green (well, unless our Steve were to stand — *that* Green is okay!) or anyone else apart from teh party who, in your constituency, will get Brown out.
That's the bottom line: the first step toward recovery. Without that, we lose our country permanently.This just isn't the right election for protest votes or any other silliness.
The EU issue can wait for another day — ijndeed, it has to if we are not to end up in a situation where we are compelled to go crawling back to them in a few years. Then they'll have us over a barrel, and we'll have done far more harm than good.
No: long-term *strategic* thinking is needed here, to beat the huge army of EU bureaucrats, and it won't be done just after *this* election (though it should be possible to have it ready before the next).
I have planned this out myself, and my plan is in the right hands within the Conservative Party — the best place to actually be implemented.
Just to put the cap on this: voting UKIP etc plays directly into the EU bureaucrats' hands. They are just longing for a return of Labour, and we drop our country back into their laps through shallow thinking…
John M Ward said...
"They are just longing for a return of Labour, and we drop our country back into their laps through shallow thinking…"
Shallow thinking, not to consider the Conservative Party fit for government? I don't think. The EU would be happy with any of the LibLabCon parties winning the election. Perhaps we need an Icelandic style revolution.
If you vote Conservatives blindly, you will get the Labour policies of the European Union and all the rest of it.
This is the wool being pulled over conservative's eyes.
There are two Tory parties - the one hijacked by Cameron-Clarke - a Blair clone - who refuse to give us a referendum to get out and then there are the true Tories who are patriots who support Britain and support our troops.
You need to write to your local conservative candidate - Albion Alliance gives you the mechanism to do that - and ask simply - will you support a PMB to put a referendum to the British people? Yes or no.
If he says yes, vote for him. If he prevaricates or says no - vote for someone else.
UKIP voters will probably be quite single minded.
Steve, you know I don't usually put a link on my comments but in this case - try the first eight paragraphs only:
http://nourishingobscurity.com/2010/02/04/quislings-are-dotted-through-our-society/
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