Being a Conservative party member I shouldn't have to ask myself that question. There should be no doubt in my mind that voting Tory is the right thing to do. But there is doubt.
There's a big problem facing the Tory party in the run up to the Euro Elections, and that problem's name is....... Referendum (dun dun dunnnnnn...). It's a problem that David Cameron can do little about without making life very difficult for himself if he is to lead the next government.
It's like this: If Gordon Brown was to do the entire country a favour and call an early election, then Cameron's first year in office becomes a whole lot easier. He can give the go ahead to his promised referendum before the Lisbon Treaty is ratified, the country will vote NO, and the Treaty dies on it's arse. Everybody is happy. But if Gordon decides to desperately cling on to power like we all expect him to, then Cameron has some very difficult times ahead.
If the Lisbon Treaty is already ratified when Dave strides through the big black door then he is left with two options. The first is to say "I'm sorry, but Gordon has put the country into a position that would be too difficult to remove ourselves from". The second option would be to put the UK at odds with the rest of Europe by backing out of a Treaty that we are already signed up to. Unfortunately for David Cameron, neither of the two options are great (understatement). The first will alienate a vast chunk of the party, and the second will be very damaging to European relations.
Of course if Gordon Brown had not broken yet another manifesto promise then this would be all academic.
So where does that leave me?
UKIP? The problem I have with UKIP is a simple one. Though I hate the EU, I cannot see how we can extricate ourselves from it without causing damage. But not only that, I do believe that there are some benefits to being in the EU (though I can't think of any off hand).
Labour and the LibDems? I've lumped these together because they both want further integration into the EU, and hell will freeze over before I vote for that (or them).
Libertas? Now I do like what Libertas have to say but I just can't see how they are going to achieve it, so they are a no no for now.
So that brings me back to the Conservatives. I can't blame Dave for not promising a referendum after ratification. It would be a bloody political nightmare to pull us out of the EU - because that is what it will mean. Once in place, the rest of Europe will not scrap the Treaty because the Brits don't like it.
So I've made my decision. I'm going to vote Tory. I'm voting Tory in the hope that Gordon steps down (or is pushed) before the Treaty is ratified. If that fails then I'm putting my trust in David Cameron's Tories to fight for UK interests from within the Treaty. They are the only party that are likely to do that (apart from Libertas but I can't see them getting the numbers).
So here's a message for Dave: Tell us the truth i.e. If we have a Tory government before ratification then we will have a referendum. If not, then you will do your utmost to get the best deal for the UK post treaty.
13 comments:
Personally I look at the Euro elections as my ‘MK Dons dilemma’. As a fan of a proper established football club, MK Dons epitomises everything that’s wrong with British football.
Instead of starting from the bottom of the football pyramid like everyone else (i.e. AFC Wimbledon) they decided to cheat, steal someone else’s club and move it elsewhere. Every principled bone in my body hopes they go out of business.
But…
whenever my team plays them it’s still 3 points to be won.
So the dilemma I have is; do I, out of principle, boycott their ground and so not give any of my hard earned money to the Franchise scum or do I go and support my team because they need the 3 points.
It’s the same with the Euro elections, I don’t want to justify a process I don’t agree with by participating in the elections and voting but at the same time it’s an opportunity to send a message regarding the EU Constitution / Lisbon Treaty.
Oh what to do?
I think you're the only Tory I know of who's come out and stated their intention to vote Tory. I don't know any Tories personally who intend to vote Tory in the EU election.
The question I have to ask you is, do you really think the EU can be reformed? If you don't - and I'd be surprised if you were naive enough to think it could - then why vote for a party that says the EU is inefficient and corrupt and needs reforming when you know that reform can't take place and that the inefficiency and corruption will only ever get worse?
Let's face it, the few benefits of EU membership are far outweighed by the unbelievable financial cost (£106k per second), the loss of sovereignty and the intolerable burden of damaging and unnecessary legislation.
Our future is outside of the European Empire and only one party will deliver that.
This is my guide to the EU elections for the folks in my town.
A) Vote Labour and back a party that voted against your right to have a say on who governs this country.
B) Vote Libdem and vote for a party that abstained from voting for your right to say who governs this country. Are PRO EU and support more EU law
C) Vote Tory and vote for a party that voted for your right to have a say on who governs this country but has a leader that appointed uber europhile Ken Clarke to the front benches after saying that, and thinks it can 'reform' the EU. Both Hague and Cameron have stated they would campagin to stay in the EU if a ''in or out'' referendum was granted. Cameron wont make a pledge to repel the Lisbon Treaty if ratified before a vote.
D) Vote for the BNP and support a party that says it wants out of the EU but recently joined forces with the Italian fascist party Forza Nuova that supports the EU because it is against America and think the EU is the only thing large enough to take them on. Would pay certain people to return home.
E) Vote UKIP, a party that has always said that the best thing to do is to leave the EU. No ifs and no buts, and the same policy right from the start. Should UKIP beat Labour at the Euro Elections Brown would have to resign !
It's up to you whom you trust and what you want to do about it.
Might be a stupid comment, but even if the treaty is ratified coz Brown miraculously clings on, DC can still hold a referendum can't he?
Rather than let the UK people down, he should use the results of the referendum to start shit with the EU and blame it all on Gordon saying the public are furious etc. etc.
Well something along those lines anyway.
No he can't repeal it once it's ratified and been lodged with whichever body it is - some Italian court I think. He also can't repatriate any powers from the EU. To repeal the Lisbon Treaty or to repatriate powers would require the unanimous agreement of every EU member state. This is why voting for the Tories if you're a eurosceptic is pointless - Camoron's promises on the EU are a waste of oxygen.
Every time he's asked if he will hold a retrospective referendum on the Lisbon Treaty he refuses to answer for the simple reason that he knows he can't. The only way to repeal the Lisbon Treaty once it's ratified is to leave the EU and he has already said that the UK will never leave the EU under a Tory government.
It's a bloody nightmare to be honest. I think everyone's in the same boat. For the first time in my life I have the same dilemma - who to vote for - when ordinarily there would only be one answer.
I'm inclined to go with Steve. Vote for Dave, and hope to God that the old bastard either resigns or gets lumped over the nearest cliff before the Lisbon treaty gets ratified!
I've resolved the problem by (already) voting for UKIP. This is a protest vote with the object of showing Dave how strongly I rate the EU issue. My continuing impression is that Cameron will give assurances only where votes are in the offing and that he is otherwise more 'phile than 'sceptic over Europe. Now is the time, before a GE, to apply maximum pressure.
Which old bastard? Bastard Brown or Bastard Cameron?
Brown won't resign unless he's pushed into it and legally there is nothing to stop Liebour putting another unelected PM in. It would be electoral suicide but they know they are unelectable anyway and today's elections will back that up. They have nothing to lose.
If the Irish vote yes to Lisbon this year then the Czechs and Poles will ratify and the Lisbon Treaty will be shonked through the European Parliament at the speed of light and lodged in Rome before anyone can withdraw their ratification.
Once the Lisbon Treaty is in force, it can't be repealed without the agreement of every EU member state. That's why Dave won't say whether he'll hold a retrospective referendum, because he's a eurofederalist and he doesn't want to admit that he won't be able to repeal the Lisbon Treaty or repatriate any powers like he says he will because the EU has to agree to it first.
He knows the EU calls the shots but doesn't want to admit it because he's somehow managed to convince eurosceptic Tories to support him even though he's in favour of EU sovereignty over the UK.
The Tories ought to rename themselves the Conservative and European Unionist Party. If you vote for them today and you're a eurosceptic you're wasting your vote. Cameron is a fundamentally dishonest man, the only way to repeal Lisbon is to leave the EU and he says that the UK will never leave the EU under a Tory government. The only party that will do that is UKIP.
Crybaby - not a silly comment at all. Post Lisbon-treaty (if ratified) a mandate from the UK in a Referendum gives DC carte-blanche to kick the seven colours of ordure out of the EU. Every single EU summit will become unworkable, until either we have opt-out across swathes of the Lisbon Treaty OR we use that mandate to exit forthwith. Not forgetting that DC can, at every turn, add that the McSnotty got us into this (along with crushing national debt, etc.)
English Guy
The first will alienate a vast chunk of the party, and the second will be very damaging to European relations.
What about alienating the whole of England? Does anyone remember that country?
This Conservative blogger and Conservative Party member is voting Conservative. I have not had to think about it. It has been a very straightforward decision.
Those members who do have to think about which party to vote for should ask themselves the question: Why am I a member of the party?
Steve: If Cameron hasn't the balls to put this country before Europe, for fear of making himself unpopular with our fellow Europeans, he isn't the man for the job, and I think the country knows that.
I voted UKIP. The Tories are like leaves in the wind. I might vote for Dave if he showed some backbone and stopped faffing around. By trying to please verybody he'll end up pleasing nobody
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